tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post3059936087674727266..comments2023-11-17T16:11:42.945-08:00Comments on The Qur'an and Modern Science: Did the Qur'anic authors borrow information of science from external sources?Hogan Elijah Hagbardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06715947713008941795noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-86215879506907690232012-08-06T18:46:34.308-07:002012-08-06T18:46:34.308-07:00I liked your blog and the conversation that follow...I liked your blog and the conversation that followed. My only problem is the taunting (at least what I saw as taunting). Let our enemies do the taunting and let us reveal the TRUTH in LOVE. <br />1 Peter 3:15<br />But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-40612328023075653812010-03-27T11:54:49.317-07:002010-03-27T11:54:49.317-07:00Just read for yourself the scholarly works of Dr. ...<b>Just read for yourself the scholarly works of Dr. Wilson, Dr. Vermes and most popularly Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus and Jesus: Interrupted and you will understand the point I am trying to make here.</b><br />i guess you haven't read the refutation to Bart erhman by Dan Wallace,and again dint you see his debate with DR James white where he was badly defeated,DR White wrote books way before erhman wrote on the same matter.<br />Do you think reading few books will strengthen your case,your nothing better than all those inconsistent Muslims around the world inspired by pagan prophet Mohammad,even DR naik agrees he was Prophecised in Pagan scriptures.<br />LOLVJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18253145184022455446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-41128036962385823722010-03-27T11:49:32.412-07:002010-03-27T11:49:32.412-07:00I have debated many christians "missionaries&...<b>I have debated many christians "missionaries" who fail to address the criticism and corruption of the bible and they make a fool of themselves trying to disprove the Quran.</b><br />please identify yourself first.making a claim of debating missionaries doesn't prove anything,anyone can make such claims,the quran itself is so foolish that no-one is needed to disprove it...<br />again if you have the daring then identify yourself,or maybe you are some taqqia Muslim trying to glorify himself by debating missionaries in your own dreams.VJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18253145184022455446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-13226218875087731692010-03-27T10:44:11.880-07:002010-03-27T10:44:11.880-07:00I have responded to the scientific response of Hel...I have responded to the scientific response of Hello here:<br /><br />http://debunkingquranicscience.blogspot.com/2010/03/response-to-muslim-hello-concerning.htmlHogan Elijah Hagbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06715947713008941795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-90643595713054492562010-03-22T14:12:04.775-07:002010-03-22T14:12:04.775-07:00Do not bother wasting my time. Your not going to w...Do not bother wasting my time. Your not going to write a rebuttal, your just going to go on websites you think are "scholarly"(ali sina who has made a fool of himself) and copy and paste some points that have already been refuted several times. This blog is nothing new, I have debated many christians "missionaries" who fail to address the criticism and corruption of the bible and they make a fool of themselves trying to disprove the Quran.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-89143021536312779352010-03-20T07:29:10.359-07:002010-03-20T07:29:10.359-07:00Seems like this blog has had some impact on our mu...Seems like this blog has had some impact on our muslim friend, he seems at bit...well shaken, lol!Hogan Elijah Hagbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06715947713008941795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-46363463110998826712010-03-20T07:28:10.609-07:002010-03-20T07:28:10.609-07:00I guess I will deal with some of your rebuttals se...I guess I will deal with some of your rebuttals seperately and in details, look out for it.Hogan Elijah Hagbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06715947713008941795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-23665164853757102592010-03-13T19:24:11.161-08:002010-03-13T19:24:11.161-08:00I will probably never check this blog So if you ha...I will probably never check this blog So if you have rebuttals or answers to the questions i posed on christianity, then send me an email, you should be able to see it. All your blogs are the same, poorly written. A note: <br /><br />That's what you demented Christians are presenting against Islam, the true religion of the historical Jesus. That Christian justification of Trinity is actually a misguided attempt to prove a fallacy which is not grounded in factual history but in ancient mythology and Hellenistic philosophy. A far cry from the sublime teachings of the Jesus of history that Christians have continued to overlook for the past 2000 years. It's not merely a simple matter of freedom of speech but credible scholarly analysis that exposes the fragile roots of orthodox Christianity. Read their books before you make up your mind. You're just exposing your gross ignorance with your claim that Muslims cannot do a critical analysis of the Qur'an. We have been doing it for centuries way before Biblical criticism became a norm in the Western academia. Just check out this website on this subject: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ The works of your Ali Sina, Spencer, et. al are nothing more than a pathetic attempt at Christian apologia that aims to prop up their misguided claims at the expense of credible, historical truth. Unlike you, I have read their works and I am not impressed with their bare-faced lies and manipulation of facts to suit their fabricated man-made dogma called Christianity. Just read for yourself the scholarly works of Dr. Wilson, Dr. Vermes and most popularly Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus and Jesus: Interrupted and you will understand the point I am trying to make here. Try to come out from your dark cocoon of blissful ignorance and fabricated fallacies. The vast majority of Christians are living in a state of spiritual blindness and loss except for a growing minority who are blessed with the true faith of the historical Jesus (i.e. Islam).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-73041992788622690682010-03-13T16:30:53.395-08:002010-03-13T16:30:53.395-08:00Well just read for yourself:
http://www.answering...Well just read for yourself:<br /><br />http://www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm<br /><br />Also, I have seen the debates between answeringchristiany and answeringislam. I have also seen their true faces exposed. I have witnessed their foul mouth and read the exchange of emails.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-62478600446902616632010-03-13T16:26:39.360-08:002010-03-13T16:26:39.360-08:00Conclusion: *edited*
A poor and FAILED attempt to...Conclusion: *edited* <br />A poor and FAILED attempt to convince a reader that the Quran borrowed from other cultures. Quran is error free. <br /><br />Back to my questions on christianity<br /><br />The Gospel of Mark:<br /><br />Note: This gospel is the oldest and supposedly the most original one in the New Testament!<br /><br /><br />"Although the book is anonymous, apart from the ancient heading "According to Mark" in manuscripts, it has traditionally been assigned to John Mark, in whose mother's house (at Jerusalem) Christians assembled. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1064)"<br /><br />"Although there is no direct internal evidence of authorship, it was the unanimous testimony of the early church that this Gospel was written by John Mark. (From the NIV Bible Commentary [1], page 1488)"<br /># We certainly do not know whether Mark was the author or not! The quote clearly states "no direct internal evidence of authorship". Also, the so-called unanimous testimony of the early church:<br /> <br />- Does not prove that the author was Mark.<br /> <br />- Nor does it prove that other people did not alter and modify the book, especially when the book was written at least 40-50 years after Christ. We don't even know if Mark even wrote the book.<br /><br /> <br />"Traditionally, the gospel is said to have been written shortly before A.D. 70 in Rome, at a time of impending persecution and when destruction loomed over Jerusalem. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1064)"<br /><br />"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes [1], page 1528)"<br /><br />"This verse, which reads, "But if you do not forgive, neither will your heavenly Father forgive your transgressions," is omitted in the best manuscripts. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1081)"<br /><br />"This passage, termed the Longer Ending to the Marcan gospel by comparison with a much briefer conclusion found in some less important manuscripts, has traditionally been accepted as a canonical part of the gospel and was defined as such by the Council of Trent. Early citations of it by the Fathers indicate that it was composed by the second century, although vocabulary and style indicate that it was written by someone other than Mark. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1088)"<br /><br />So, in reality, we don't really know whether Mark was the sole author of this Gospel or not, nor do we know when and where the "gospel" was even written. And since The New Testament wasn't even documented on paper until 150-300 years (depending on what Christian you talk to) after Jesus, then how are we to know for sure that the current "Gospel of Mark" wasn't written by some pro of Mark?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-41276585706581197902010-03-13T16:24:29.555-08:002010-03-13T16:24:29.555-08:00Conclusions:
A poor attempt to convince a reader...Conclusions: <br /><br />A poor attempt to convince a reader that the Quran borrowed from other cultures. Quran is error free. <br /><br />Now if i may ask several questions on christianity?<br /><br />The Gospel of Matthew:<br /><br />"The unknown author, whom we shall continue to call Matthew for the sake of convenience, drew no only up the Gospel according to Mark but upon a large body of material (principally, sayings of Jesus) not found in Mk that corresponds, sometimes exactly, to material found also in the Gospel according to Luke. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1008)"<br /><br />"As for the place where the gospel was composed, a plausible suggestion is that it was Antioch, the capital of the Roman province of Syria. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1009)"<br /><br />So we clearly see, both the author or authors and the place of composition of the "Gospel of Matthew" are unknown.<br /><br />Who were the real authors of the bible??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-8620149681009706712010-03-13T16:19:07.592-08:002010-03-13T16:19:07.592-08:00You should do more research.
This story originat...You should do more research. <br /><br />This story originated from the book of Al-Tabari. Here is what Al-Tabari said about his own book and writings:<br /><br />"Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-35443427473375396232010-03-13T16:13:28.953-08:002010-03-13T16:13:28.953-08:00I'm actually surprised you would even use Arth...I'm actually surprised you would even use Arthur Jeffery as your reference. <br /><br />You mention:<br />Arthur Jeffery suggest that a range of religious vocabulary in the Qur’an, such as Qur’an, Isa and Injil derives from the Syrian Christian faction. If this is true it reveals strong, intellectual interaction and borrowing, which Jeffery seems to suggest.[20]<br /><br />Here is an article exposing Jeffery & Missionaries. You'd have to be desperate to use him as a reference.<br /><br />http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Gilchrist/GilJeffery.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-37089588700392436542010-03-13T16:07:22.746-08:002010-03-13T16:07:22.746-08:00Even classical polemicists such as J.M Rodwell and...Even classical polemicists such as J.M Rodwell and Alan Jones admit that the Prophet (P) was indeed illiterate.<br /><br />You write:<br />These sects were connected to Christian factions to which science was greatly valued; who possessed schools which emphasised and propagated the Christian faith, including philosophy and science. Their contribution to translating literature e.g. into Syrian language and their knowledge was not only confined to monasteries but were transmitted to the communities."<br /><br />First point:<br /><br />Many scientific mistakes in the Bible are not copied over, such as World's creation, Noah Ark, World is Flat etc. If he copied over, how does he know which one is wrong and not to copy?<br /><br />Muhammad recites the Qur'an for 22 years.<br />Whenever new verses are revealed, he immediately memorizes them and instructs the companions either to memorize or write down. Since he recites it, there is no 'editorial process', which means whatever being said cannot be taken back. Imagine the level of consistency that he has to maintain.<br /><br />With over 600+ pages of verses over such long period, any mistake will be pointed out immediately by non-believers who are always denying him.<br /><br />He didn't get any help.<br />Since he is the first Muslim, then nobody was there to help him. No-one was around him for the whole 22 years to assist him. Qur'an is in perfect Arabic language, so whoever taught him must be of Arabic mother-tongue with excellent knowledge in everything. So no proof of him getting outside help.<br /><br />No, he didn't copy from Bible nor Torah.<br />Bible in arabic is non-existent at that time. In fact, he cannot read, no library, Internet or Y!A. In fact the content of Qur'an is obvious opposite with Bible, such as Jesus as God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-26835369715538312822010-03-13T15:44:46.886-08:002010-03-13T15:44:46.886-08:00You mention
"The Bukhari indeed refers to a C...You mention<br />"The Bukhari indeed refers to a Christian convert to Islam, who helped narrating Muhammad revelations. Initially he left Islam and informed about his contribution to fabricate the Qur’an with Muhammad; Bukhari informs us that Allah caused him to die.["<br /><br />Lets take a look at the hadith:<br /><br />Narrated Anas:<br /><br />There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then Allah caused him to die, and the people buried him, but in the morning they saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is the act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and took his body out of it because he had run away from them." They again dug the grave deeply for him, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is an act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and threw his body outside it, for he had run away from them." They dug the grave for him as deep as they could, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. So they believed that what had befallen him was not done by human beings and had to leave him thrown (on the ground). <br /><br />First of all He does not help Narrating, That is just an absurd claim. Second of all you refute yourself saying that he helped Muhammad saw to compose the Quran because the hadith translates he only wrote the revelations. Also the Quran was orally transmitted and Muhammad(saw) obviously memorized the Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran. Third he tries to take the credit when he returns to the christians and spreads his lies. Then he suffers a terrible faith. And if Muhammad(saw) fabricated the quran then i challenge you to produce a chapter like it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-27946023647031804592010-03-13T15:32:51.475-08:002010-03-13T15:32:51.475-08:00You write
"Greek scientific ideas would also...You write <br />"Greek scientific ideas would also have been passed on to Muhammad by the Jewish community; in fact some of the scientific ideas of the Qur’an, both terminology and chronology, resemble the writings of the Talmud significantly/"<br /><br />My response:<br />Babylonian Talmud & The Qur'an<br /><br />There are only two places in Talmud where the story of Abraham and idols is mentioned:<br /><br /> 1. When the wicked Nimrod cast our father Abraham into the fiery furnace, Gabriel said to the Holy One, blessed be He: "Sovereign of the Universe! Let me go down, cool it, and the deliver that righteous man from the fiery furnace.'" [Pesachim 118a]<br /><br /> 2. Let Nimrod come and testify that Abraham did not (consent to) worship idols; [Avaodah Zarah 3a] <br /><br />This is all that one reads in the Babylonian Talmud. The only similarity that one can see is that Abraham was saved from the fire, but there is no mention of the events leading unto the climax of the fire.<br /><br />What is interesting is that there is no agreement between these "strikingly similar" sources concerning whether Abraham fled or was he put in to the fire.<br /><br />Both Catena Severi and Jacob of Edessa's writings say that Terah and his family fled from Ur of Chaldees.<br /><br />On the other hand, the Babylonian Talmud and Jerome's writings say that Abraham was put into the fire but was saved. Furthermore, what was it that Abraham refuse to worship? Was it the fire according to Jerome's version or was it the idols as mentioned in Catena Severi, the writings of Jacob of Edessa's and the Babylonian Talmud etc.?<br /><br />In dept refutation to this absurd claim can be found here:<br />http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBrabbah.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-7697614910103146602010-03-13T15:25:33.512-08:002010-03-13T15:25:33.512-08:00“Greek philosophers guessed a lot of scientific de...“Greek philosophers guessed a lot of scientific details correctly–they anticipated atoms, other solar systems, evolution, the laws of thermodynamics, the rain cycle, you name it. That doesn’t make them supernaturally prescient…” I agree so when Darwin proposed the theory of evolution I suppose he was plagiarizing/borrowing from the Greeks? You need to re-asses your criticism"<br /><br />Again produce a chapter like the Quran.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-73017927534258833222010-03-13T14:15:24.237-08:002010-03-13T14:15:24.237-08:00Ok, can you name the Greek philosopher Muhammad(sa...Ok, can you name the Greek philosopher Muhammad(saw) interacted with? Can you produce a chapter like the Quran?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-27414062105841935812010-01-30T10:25:39.848-08:002010-01-30T10:25:39.848-08:00And to the other Brian, welcome to by blog bro. Fe...And to the other Brian, welcome to by blog bro. Feel free to comment at any time.<br /><br />May God bless both of youHogan Elijah Hagbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06715947713008941795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-87640769824548560462010-01-30T10:24:44.289-08:002010-01-30T10:24:44.289-08:00Brian,
You cannot blame me for your early sources...Brian,<br /><br />You cannot blame me for your early sources being so inconsistent. The fact is that Tabari, who was a contemporary of Bukhari (correct me if I am wrong here) transmitted this saying. <br /><br />Muslims tend to pick and reject from Bukhari and Tabari and the rest of these sources as it fits their arguments. When a Muslim has a problem with the Qur'an and Bukhari does not help he tends to turn to other sources even Tabari. <br /><br />As far as I know, there was no method of isnad neither any isnad existing in Muhammad's time. This was a later invention, and I would say it places both Bukhari and Tabari on the same level. <br /><br />That is of course unless you can post a manuscript list of the isnad that is not dated later than 50 years after Muhammed.<br /><br />I do however, encourage to read my post carefully before you condemn it as being the outcome of my own biasad attitude only. There are a number of arguments against Qur'anic science that I have rejected based upon a very objective study.Hogan Elijah Hagbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06715947713008941795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-33791429029729635902010-01-16T13:42:27.695-08:002010-01-16T13:42:27.695-08:00I must say that even if we find some science to be...I must say that even if we find some science to be correct in the Quran we must also look at the incorrect science as well. Also it should be pointed out that even the devil himself can get certain science correct. We must look at the Quran as a whole only then do we find that it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The Bible on the other hand does not only scientifically but prophetically as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-85187563458384350722010-01-13T12:52:11.230-08:002010-01-13T12:52:11.230-08:00(you were trying to portray that seeking 'scie...(you were trying to portray that seeking 'scientific' knowledge was more important than prayer for example)* trying to indicate a 'deceptive apologetic motif by Muhammad pbuh.Brianmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11222572834306617928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2586801589540790404.post-78060113579503263702010-01-13T12:50:38.775-08:002010-01-13T12:50:38.775-08:00Just skimming through very quickly, already I see ...Just skimming through very quickly, already I see you referring to Tabari anyway, which is not an authentic hadith and we know has stuff which gathers info from anywhere. So it is not befitting that you use Tabari, but rather the Authentic hadith.<br /><br />It is narrated on the authority of Abdullah bin Mas'ood (may Allah be pleased with him), who observed: <br />"I asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) which deed was the best." He (the Holy Prophet) replied: 'The Prayer at its appointed hour.' (Sahih Muslim: 120) <br />So yeah, prayer is more important than seeking 'scientific' knowledge as you are trying to portray.<br /><br />And I haven't even looked at your works properly, just a super, super quick skim through. <br /><br />I understand you will be delivering from your own bias.Brianmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11222572834306617928noreply@blogger.com